Processed: ORL/CAL trade

[Hell Atlantic]

i really don't see what he's getting upset about. he was online at the time that Pirates posted that block. he had the same chance as i to make an offer. if he's pissed about others missing out who weren't online then that's not his business - that's up to Pirates if he wants to roll the dice and hold off on a solid offer with a guy ready to deal for the small chance that someone else might want to make an offer.

[Hell Atlantic]

I can't wait to see what Caffrey asks for in an extension. His agent is the very stubborn Levon Quinn.

this is a key point though. Caffery, coming off a career year is sure to ask for a ton to resign. Edwards, coming off a season where he missed a lot of games, will likely ask for a reasonable contract and i'm going to look to quickly resign him to a long term deal.

[Matt]

The problem is that when you pull a quick trigger, you have the opportunity to lose out on value. Plain and simple.

[JesterBlaze]

I like the trade. Both players are great.
I dont understand being upset about it only being posted 4 hours. If you have any interest in a player, PM the GM. Dont sit around hoping he posts a block and then miss out.
I see no issue here.

Any player over a certain talent threshold interests me (and I assume a high percentage of other GMs). I'm not going to PM everyone in the league annoyingly asking about the nucleus of their team. Rather I assume that each GM understands, at least to some extent, the value of the talent on his team and if you're going to unload something big you'll want to get the most you can for it which you can't do if all the potential buyers arent' aware of the sale.

i really don't see what he's getting upset about. he was online at the time that Pirates posted that block. he had the same chance as i to make an offer. if he's pissed about others missing out who weren't online then that's not his business - that's up to Pirates if he wants to roll the dice and hold off on a solid offer with a guy ready to deal for the small chance that someone else might want to make an offer.

Actually, as commish it is his business to guide the league. There are many GMs who don't like quick trades of star players.

[Hell Atlantic]

so they should inquire about the players they like on other teams. the worst that will happen is the other GM says "he's not available". no one was stopping anyone from PMing Pirates and asking him if his stud CB was available. you need a golden invitation?

only thing the commish needs to worry about is if the trade is realistic/fair. the fact that a GM was quick to pull a trigger on a deal is their own strategy and if any harm is done it's to themselves, not to the league.

i still have yet to hear that anyone would have offered more than Caffery. if some people haven't checked in since last nite or even have downloaded the 2k7 file yet then that's their problem. they lose out for not being active owners. what, we're supposed to wait around for everyone. the thing is we can' get fired in this league for bad jobs. the next best thing is those who can't be on top of their teams in the most important part of the season - the offseason - deserve to lose out. how are you going to improve your team if you haven't even downloaded the new files yet? why should i be penalized if you can't be on the site often?

[MrBigglesworth]

The way Edwards gets hurt, I can see why Orlando would want to rid themselves of him. Four 5+ week injuries in the past two seasons.

[tarcone]

I like the trade. Both players are great.
I dont understand being upset about it only being posted 4 hours. If you have any interest in a player, PM the GM. Dont sit around hoping he posts a block and then miss out.
I see no issue here.

Any player over a certain talent threshold interests me (and I assume a high percentage of other GMs). I'm not going to PM everyone in the league annoyingly asking about the nucleus of their team. Rather I assume that each GM understands, at least to some extent, the value of the talent on his team and if you're going to unload something big you'll want to get the most you can for it which you can't do if all the potential buyers arent' aware of the sale.

i really don't see what he's getting upset about. he was online at the time that Pirates posted that block. he had the same chance as i to make an offer. if he's pissed about others missing out who weren't online then that's not his business - that's up to Pirates if he wants to roll the dice and hold off on a solid offer with a guy ready to deal for the small chance that someone else might want to make an offer.

Actually, as commish it is his business to guide the league. There are many GMs who don't like quick trades of star players.

1) You should PM a GM if you are interested in a player. Why is it annoying to answer a PM? A simple not available is all required.

2) Maybe this WR is what he wanted. He may have no interest in taking a chance on drafting one. Who knows, but its his team. And this isnt a lopsided trade.

3) By the way, im interested in: Stanfield, Glover, Ortiz, Kley. Any of these guys available?

[roadrash]

if you like this, you should see what the 2nd phase of my offseason plans are.


Jeff, please don't for one second think my offseason starts as soon as the season is over. i'm a very opportunistic and persistent GM. i put out feelers to GMs who have players i want towards the end of the season. i aim big. Pirates and i have been in talks for a while now, and for even bigger players than Edwards.

and Pirates is completely correct - i don't wait around forever. for every 1 offer i make, GMs should assume i've made other offers to other teams for similar players.

but still, this was only phase one. phase two will be bigger if i can have my way.


"A shark never sleeps."

-Drew Rosenhaus

You mean the PMs you send out during training camp asking for my star players that I just signed for multiple years are part of a "plan"?

[roadrash]

if some people haven't checked in since last nite or even have downloaded the 2k7 file yet then that's their problem. they lose out for not being active owners. what, we're supposed to wait around for everyone. the thing is we can' get fired in this league for bad jobs. the next best thing is those who can't be on top of their teams in the most important part of the season - the offseason - deserve to lose out. how are you going to improve your team if you haven't even downloaded the new files yet? why should i be penalized if you can't be on the site often?

What? So if someone is at work for 8 hours a day. . .they are not active enough to have the right to consider if they might want a star player?

Also, the estimated time for the start of the 2010 season was this weekend . The files got done quick, things lit up quick. There may be a GM who just decided to use the projected break for a couple days. Should "he" be penalized?

Jeff has every right to bring this up, it affects the competition of the league in a major transition point. I do not think you are wrong in accepting the trade, I think the Pirates undersold themselves, but you didn't do anything wrong.

But your argument does not hold water.

[Hell Atlantic]

From: Hell Atlantic
To: Pirates
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:11 pm
Subject: CB Edwards
is he available?

-HA

[JesterBlaze]

so they should inquire about the players they like on other teams. the worst that will happen is the other GM says "he's not available". no one was stopping anyone from PMing Pirates and asking him if his stud CB was available. you need a golden invitation?

Other than saying "he's not available" the GM can think "Does this asshole understand the trading block system?" and they can talk to other GM's who think likewise and before you know it you're known as "the guy who bugs everyone with PMs asking if they can have your superstars for peanuts knowing 1/10 will work and doesn't care if he bugs 9 serious GMs with rediculous 'offers' in the meantime"

i still have yet to hear that anyone would have offered more than Caffery.

Strange. No one's made offers on a player already traded!?!? There must not have been another person in the league that wants an elite corner. :shock:

if some people haven't checked in since last nite or even have downloaded the 2k7 file yet then that's their problem. they lose out for not being active owners. what, we're supposed to wait around for everyone. the thing is we can' get fired in this league for bad jobs. the next best thing is those who can't be on top of their teams in the most important part of the season - the offseason - deserve to lose out. how are you going to improve your team if you haven't even downloaded the new files yet? why should i be penalized if you can't be on the site often?

RR already answered this quite well.

1) You should PM a GM if you are interested in a player. Why is it annoying to answer a PM? A simple not available is all required.

A serious offer isn't annoying to me, but at the same time if a player isn't on the block then I'm not looking to move him so you should have a "pry him away" type of offer and not a "feeler offer" (read: are you dumb enough to accept this?).

And I personally don't get annoyed from trade offers very easily (I can say "no" as you've said) but do know that some people who's main reason for no longer joining MP leagues is "all the annoying trade requests" so I know the concept of feeling bombarded/overloaded with unrequested trade offers is real enough.

3) By the way, im interested in: Stanfield, Glover, Ortiz, Kley. Any of these guys available?

Do you see any of these guys in that there "Trade Block" forum?

[JesterBlaze]

The main point is that you should get a much value as you can and get the word out when there's a star player on the block.

For those of you who somehow think your trades don't effect the rest of the league how would you like to go to work one day and come home to find that your division rival just got:

Caro
Crespo
Kao
that DE over in CAL
Kley
McKenzie

I think you'd smarten up real quick and realize this is a 32 team league and the comings and goings of one team most assuredly effect the others.

[Hell Atlantic]

if you get annoyed at trade requests then you don't belong in a MP league. you can play solo if you don't want to be bothered.


i'm a MP veteran. you know how many times i've inquired about someone huge and the GM said "i wasn't thinking about moving him but you'd have to blow me away with an offer for me to consider". i have no problem blowing you away with an offer - i can't aquire a guy who isn't available. first step is seeing if the guy can be had. even if it's a high price. i'll determine if i'm prepared to pay the price. i would have given up half my team for Caro when the previous owner put him on the block. instead jeff got to aquire him for nothing and now wants to brag about him like he invented Jay Caro.

there are people in this league i don't even bother with offers anymore. jeff, suicane, roadrash. anyone else i'll shoot an offer to, if it gets shot down then i move along. and i don't offer a trade first. i find out if the guy is available. whole thing is finding out if Player X can be had. after that then the ball is in my court.

you can laugh all you want, but look at the job i've done with the team. it didn't get that way by itself. i went out and aquired all those guys you see. my process works. i wasn't one of the teams that lucked out with a nice 2003 draft. most of the good teams with good players have the same good players they aquired in 2003. me? i've had to do it the hard way. so if i got to bug some guys with unsolicited PMs about their awesome players so be it. success isn't handed to you (unless you're jeff and you can just walk into a team with someone like Jay Caro). you gotta work for it. i don't do IFL for my health. i do it cuz i want to win.

[Matt]

This whole "Jeff acquired Caro for nothing" thing is not even valid. Jave wanted his team back. Jeff took over the open team. Caro was there and that made it an easy choice. He had Hamilton in Oakland..........and JC in Columbia.

I think what Jester is saying what he finds annoying is " I'll give you a 5th rnd pick for RJ Kley". Don't offer shit and expect to get gold. I've personally been lucky in MP football to not get a whole lot of shitty offers. Fantasy football, however, annoys the shit out of me. People offer shitty players for studs. I don't like dealing with that shit.

[Pirates]

Quick point on Edwards. He is not a star. 25 starts in 3 seasons does not make a star. His ratings are nice but he has never produced a star season. I am a firm believer in Solecismic football to look at what a player has produced and then look at his ratings. I cannot tell you guys how many lower rated guys have performed unbelievably over their career and high rated guys never quite getting it done. It must be the hidden ratings. I am convinced that with a 22 Endurance on Edwards and his 3 years of injury plagued seasons that he is an injury prone player. So, let us not put him up there with the Crespo's, Kao's, Kley's and Caro's.

Now to make my final point. There will be many people who think that the trade is fair or unfair. That is cool. No issues with people's opinion. I love the debate over value. It will always be there and should be encouraged. Jeff's biggest concern was the speed at which the trade was done. I can definitely see his point, but there are countless arguements to the contrary. Now some believe I could have gotten better for him. I made the trade with HA because I believed asking for more would be a rip off because of Edwards' track record. Honestly, I felt this is fair for both of us. I was not trying to shoot the moon on him because he has never performed at a high level. Now, if I were to trade our RB Connell then I would demand top dollar. Look at what he has done.

A lot of you guys think I should have gone for the most I could get, but really I am in this for fun. When I feel I have gotten what is fair value then I am good. I don't push it and over hype players. If you try and bill Edwards as a star corner, well that is just ridiculous. But, this is my philosophy and I know you all have different opinions. The difference in opinions on how to run a team or conduct a trade is what enriches the league and gets people active. I am all for it.