Week 11 Discussion

[JesterBlaze]

I'd love something in FOF like you describe to be able to tone down/up strengths/weights of certain elements of the game on a league to league basis!

if there wasn't any type of under the hood system of checks and balances then why is it you never see a QB pass for 60 td's, 70 td's? 6,000 passing yards? RB's rushing for 2,500+ yards year after year? 10 CB's getting 20+ int's? what's to stop that from happening?

The other 31 GMs.

And the fact that Jim (apparently) hasn't given the "studs" an unrealistic advantage over the roster-fillers.

[tarcone]

Damn this is why Groth keeps getting hurt. To balance out his statistics at the end of the year.
Jim, you bastard. I wanted a 3000 yard WR.

[MrBigglesworth]

lput it under a microscope and you watch each game play out. now, let's say it's week 10 and we have our 5 stellar QB's playing their balls off. they're on pace for their 30+ td's, their 3,000+ passing yards, their sexy stats. these guys are tops in the IFL. which is the way you would say it is in real life. not every QB is Peyton Manning. so it's week 10 and now you look at the 2nd tier of QB's. a couple are starting to come on strong, but wait - if the AI lets that go unchecked then all of a sudden we have 8 stellar QB, 10 stellar QB's. that's too much, the gaming public crys out. well, jim can't allow too many awesome QB's in the game cuz that's not realistic. so what happens? funny things happen. bad playcalls are made

Let's look at game by game stats from last year of similar NFL and IFL quarterbacks:

QB #1
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
25/17/68/195/2/1
24/14/58/229/0/1
41/20/49/257/1/1
31/20/64/294/0/1
35/22/63/174/0/1
42/22/52/305/3/2
33/17/51/183/1/3
26/16/61/120/1/0
22/16/73/185/2/0
46/31/67/389/3/5
32/20/62/234/1/2
27/15/56/150/1/2
23/17/76/228/3/1
33/22/67/254/3/2
30/19/63/227/2/1
36/22/61/234/2/0
506/310/61/3658/25/20

QB #2
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
23/11/48/163/2/1
29/15/52/220/1/1
55/31/56/320/1/0
26/15/58/188/2/1
29/16/55/188/2/0
27/18/67/195/2/0
43/29/67/372/4/1
35/20/57/201/0/4
36/24/67/253/1/1
31/20/64/244/4/0
33/22/67/267/1/2
38/27/71/305/0/1
25/12/48/78/0/0
23/16/70/109/2/0
39/28/72/249/1/0
24/15/63/225/1/0
516/319/62/3529/24/12

Which is the NFL quarterback, and which is the IFL QB whose stats were influenced by the supposed 'big picture AI', and why?

Amazing similarity is stats ... now I want to know who you are comparing Lozier to?

I also lean to your bias ... perhaps Tony Romo's botched 19 yard field goal attempt was another late game AI big picture adjustment also.

The top is Lozier, the bottom is Brady, two QB's that I thought were pretty analogous in terms of their roles on the team and the teams' success, and then I was amazed to see that they had similar stats last season.

But the real point is that as you look at the weekly stats, they both vary the same amount throughout the season, with really good games and really bad games and lots in between. If HA were correct, you would be able to pick out Lozier's numbers from where the AI took over and influenced his stats. But you can't. You can't tell the difference between the game to game variations of NFL and IFL players with similar yearly stats.

If you look at the biggest surprise QB last year ([ifl]Chris Chaplin[/ifl]), if HA's theory was correct you would see a big correction at the end of the season to get him back to around his career numbers. But his last three weeks he went 81/51 with 8 TD's and 1 int.

I don't see any evidence for a 'big picture AI'.

[Hell Atlantic]

i'm not saying the AI picks a magic week to start correcting the stats. i'm saying jim has the model for what the end of season stats should look like and the AI corrects itself throughout the game. think about it - if there wasn't any AI mechanism then you would see the most outlandish stats every season. but no, whether it be solo or MP, you mostly see the same breakdown of stats, just different players every year. can't you imagine the huge variances you would find season-to-season if there wasn't anything behind the scenes saying "you need to have this many players performing on an elite level. you need to have this many guys who have above/below average stats. and you need this many guys having shitty years" when have you ever looked at an FOF game and said "there's too many RB's rushing for 2,000 yards per year?" never.

just a theory. in any event, the game is fun and this league is great. so if i get the dirty end of the stick every once in a while so be it. as long as i come out ahead just as many times to balance it out then no harm no foul.

[JesterBlaze]

When have you ever looked at an FOF game and said "there's too many RB's rushing for 2,000 yards per year?"

Create a player-file with 32 RBs and all OLineman set at "9" in excel (the highest starting grade) and the rest of the 1700+ players set at "0" and I guarantee you that you'll see a lot of 2000 yard rushers.

All DLineman at "9" and everyone else at "0" and I bet you see a lot of 20 (maybe even 30) sack guys.


On the rare occasion that I play a solo-career I always use a player file that I've created that starts the whole league with scrubs. That way you really have to build a team instead of getting alucky initial draft. Using this method the first stud at each position during the first 4-5 drafts gets extremely high stats at the end of a season playing against lesser players.

It's the player ratings that balance it out.


Also, football itself has a natural balancing effect: Successful passing game? You're probably in the lead so start running - no more passing stats. Successful running game? You've probably used up the clock - game over - no more rushing stats. Successful defense? They've punted - no more defensive stats.

[dberner30]

i think the key answer to it all is play the game and not football...i saw a posting on another board with what the ratings mean and it clearly baffled me in terms of how football should play out....

so i have to drop football out and game the game or give up....

one thing i notice (and I see a lot of games play out) is that one team outperforms the other for a portion of the game and then cant find their ass with both hands...

the way it plays out is that team suddenly gets penalties to nullify first down plays, ends up with plays that end up 1 yd short, or gets a bad turnover or special teams play (blocked kicks, missed FG, returns)...the other team that was struggling suddenly cant be stopped...long passes, fumbles they recover themselves, penalties on the defense to keep drives alive...it appears that the game has a predetermined outcome range and then if the gameplay doesnt work out that way it starts to use the equalizer factors to get the outcome right...im not suggesting its cheating...hell its a game engine and we dont control it...its like the game has a governor on board and when your offense hits 65 mph it just shuts it off (think UHaul truck).

[Hell Atlantic]

exactly. that's all i'm saying. in order to preserve realistic outcomes so that a dominant team doesn't start putting up 70 pts per game it kinda levels the playing field with some tricks, like ill-timed penalities, teams that come alive at the most convenient time and fumbles.

still, it happens to everyone so you can't cry about it. no one team gets singled out, despite appearances.

[Matt]

My only issue is with this game right now is the fact that my team leads the league in penalties. My coach has an excellent rating in that area. My team cohesion is excellent accross the board. What can I do to resolve this issue? It takes the fun out of the game for me when an area that shouldn't be an issue is deciding games. Even if I was in the top 30% in penalties, I could somewhat be ok with it. However leading the league in both penalities and penalty yards makes it frustrating.

The other issue that I have is that I'm a competitive person by nature. I hate losing. For whatever reason, I love this team and this league. I want to be successful. It sucks to know that the pieces are there, but it just isn't meant to be......which I need to tell myself from time to time.

I have another team in another league where I built this terrific team. All the pieces were in place and we lose our starting QB in a meaningless game where we were up by over 30pts..............that's right, on a false start penalty. So we win 14 games for nothing. We lose in the conference finals. The following season, the dreaded cap comes into place. I'm forced to turn the page on some key guys and let them walk. I picked up some situational scrubs and let it ride. We won 12 or 13 games, and ended up winning the championship game. We never won the year we should have, but all's well that ends well.

[Matt]

and so ends my longest post ever

[MrBigglesworth]

Instead of programming a complicated feedback system to change results based on how former results came out, wouldn't it be easier to program the game where the odds of something happening make it so that, over the sixteen games of a balanced league, the stats come out to be realistic?

[MrBigglesworth]

My only issue is with this game right now is the fact that my team leads the league in penalties. My coach has an excellent rating in that area. My team cohesion is excellent accross the board. What can I do to resolve this issue? .

This is the kind of thing about the game that does bother me, when there is something that is not documented and doesn't seem to follow from football sense.

[Suicane]

Could Crespo being out have fucked up your O-Lines sensibilites?