Week 11 Discussion

[Suicane]

Someone is angsty from losing in punaball.

[Coder]

One more thing before I vanish until next Sunday. We're all playing the same game. SO WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. You'd think that Jim sent out different versions to certain people from some of the discussion.

I guess this is not the best time to say that Jim did indeed send me my own version.. it's the "Wins-guaranteed" version.. I only had to pay $50 extra for it... really.. it's true

[dberner30]

crap....wish i had dropped the extra fifty to get it done.


as you wish Jeff....blind happiness and love it will be...


hey i wonder if the wife issue is how ya get the special version instead of the fifty bucks...

[Suicane]

I don't think he wants blind hapiness, but we are all indeed playing the same game.

I know it can be frustrating when you're losing and don't know why, but shit happens, and bad runs happen. The rash of discontent with the game has become a bit disconcerting.

[dberner30]

thats the rub...its not winning or losing...its how the games play that is reeking...

[Hell Atlantic]

You'd think that Jim sent out different versions to certain people from some of the discussion.

if that's the case then with you going 8-0 (before you hit the brick wall known as the California Heroes) without any WR's you must've got the awesome version.

[Hell Atlantic]

I don't think he wants blind hapiness, but we are all indeed playing the same game.

I know it can be frustrating when you're losing and don't know why, but shit happens, and bad runs happen. The rash of discontent with the game has become a bit disconcerting.

hey, i've been consistent. i've had the same gripes with this game when i was 0-3 and now being 7-4 (which, btw, has to be one of the biggest turnarounds in one team's season in IFL's history. one week i'm a lock for the 1st overall pick, i blink and all of a sudden the Heroes are in the thick of it for a Wild Card spot). jim gets a free pass with FOF for some completely unknown reason. sometimes it's good to spread the love around and point out the shortcomings when it's due. statistically FOF is a very sound game. it's just how the game goes about getting those stats (whether its bugs or just having things balance themselves out over the course of a season). something just isn't kosher about this game, and i wasn't this vocal about it when i was in IHOF, but i guess the slow pace of IFL and with me actually watching each game and seeing some odd things throughout the course of a game just really opened my eyes. when all you look at is the final score that says nothing about how the two teams got to that point. when you see that maybe in fact one team started to get screwed with some faulty playcalling or bad decisions then you question it.

[dberner30]

I don't think he wants blind hapiness, but we are all indeed playing the same game.

I know it can be frustrating when you're losing and don't know why, but shit happens, and bad runs happen. The rash of discontent with the game has become a bit disconcerting.

hey, i've been consistent. i've had the same gripes with this game when i was 0-3 and now being 7-4 (which, btw, has to be one of the biggest turnarounds in one team's season in IFL's history. one week i'm a lock for the 1st overall pick, i blink and all of a sudden the Heroes are in the thick of it for a Wild Card spot). jim gets a free pass with FOF for some completely unknown reason. sometimes it's good to spread the love around and point out the shortcomings when it's due. statistically FOF is a very sound game. it's just how the game goes about getting those stats (whether its bugs or just having things balance themselves out over the course of a season). something just isn't kosher about this game, and i wasn't this vocal about it when i was in IHOF, but i guess the slow pace of IFL and with me actually watching each game and seeing some odd things throughout the course of a game just really opened my eyes. when all you look at is the final score that says nothing about how the two teams got to that point. when you see that maybe in fact one team started to get screwed with some faulty playcalling or bad decisions then you question it.

you know...thats a very good way of describing the problem...thats what makes you scratch your head...its a disconnect...

[Jave]

........

[Hell Atlantic]

I don't think he wants blind hapiness, but we are all indeed playing the same game.

I know it can be frustrating when you're losing and don't know why, but shit happens, and bad runs happen. The rash of discontent with the game has become a bit disconcerting.

hey, i've been consistent. i've had the same gripes with this game when i was 0-3 and now being 7-4 (which, btw, has to be one of the biggest turnarounds in one team's season in IFL's history. one week i'm a lock for the 1st overall pick, i blink and all of a sudden the Heroes are in the thick of it for a Wild Card spot). jim gets a free pass with FOF for some completely unknown reason. sometimes it's good to spread the love around and point out the shortcomings when it's due. statistically FOF is a very sound game. it's just how the game goes about getting those stats (whether its bugs or just having things balance themselves out over the course of a season). something just isn't kosher about this game, and i wasn't this vocal about it when i was in IHOF, but i guess the slow pace of IFL and with me actually watching each game and seeing some odd things throughout the course of a game just really opened my eyes. when all you look at is the final score that says nothing about how the two teams got to that point. when you see that maybe in fact one team started to get screwed with some faulty playcalling or bad decisions then you question it.

you know...thats a very good way of describing the problem...thats what makes you scratch your head...its a disconnect...

like i've said before (i think over at FOFC) - FOF is great statistically. what does that mean? that means at season's end you have stats that mirror what you might see at the NFL. 5 or so QB's have a stellar season, 5 or so have a completely shitty season, and in between is the rest. some guys playing over their head, some guys having a below par season. now, if you take that at face value, you would say "my God, this game does a great job at replicating NFL numbers". but that's looking at the big picture.

put it under a microscope and you watch each game play out. now, let's say it's week 10 and we have our 5 stellar QB's playing their balls off. they're on pace for their 30+ td's, their 3,000+ passing yards, their sexy stats. these guys are tops in the IFL. which is the way you would say it is in real life. not every QB is Peyton Manning. so it's week 10 and now you look at the 2nd tier of QB's. a couple are starting to come on strong, but wait - if the AI lets that go unchecked then all of a sudden we have 8 stellar QB, 10 stellar QB's. that's too much, the gaming public crys out. well, jim can't allow too many awesome QB's in the game cuz that's not realistic. so what happens? funny things happen. bad playcalls are made (we all know the AI will opt to do something weird at times if it's down to the last series and the team on offense needs to win the game). silly (and consecutive) penalities are called. teams that were zombies in the first half start to come back and play like allstars in the 2nd half. we've all seen it. but i think that's how the game balances out the stats. it kinda "ensures" that statistically, at the end of the season, things are realistic. and the only way to ensure that is to "influence" the outcomes of games so that you fuck a team some weeks, you help them out other weeks, but "it's ok" cuz as long as the stats aren't outta whack who cares on a game-by-game basis if a team gets screwed.

this is just a game, so i don't let it keep me up at nite. it's just i haven't drank the kool-aid so if something seems off i'm gonna voice my opinion. i don't think the problem is as serious as i described it, but i certainly believe a mild form of my theory is in play. if there wasn't any AI influence working behind the scenes then you could imagine just how many undefeated and winless teams you would see in one season. something has to make sure we have one uber team, a handful of elite teams, a whole bunch of middle teams, and a handful of awful teams. anything other than that and we would cry foul.

[dberner30]

well said. i would prefer the game not use garbage to influence the overall statistical outcome. game by game is what i like the best. your explanation is the best for these bizzaro outcomes.

[MrBigglesworth]

lput it under a microscope and you watch each game play out. now, let's say it's week 10 and we have our 5 stellar QB's playing their balls off. they're on pace for their 30+ td's, their 3,000+ passing yards, their sexy stats. these guys are tops in the IFL. which is the way you would say it is in real life. not every QB is Peyton Manning. so it's week 10 and now you look at the 2nd tier of QB's. a couple are starting to come on strong, but wait - if the AI lets that go unchecked then all of a sudden we have 8 stellar QB, 10 stellar QB's. that's too much, the gaming public crys out. well, jim can't allow too many awesome QB's in the game cuz that's not realistic. so what happens? funny things happen. bad playcalls are made

Let's look at game by game stats from last year of similar NFL and IFL quarterbacks:

QB #1
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
25/17/68/195/2/1
24/14/58/229/0/1
41/20/49/257/1/1
31/20/64/294/0/1
35/22/63/174/0/1
42/22/52/305/3/2
33/17/51/183/1/3
26/16/61/120/1/0
22/16/73/185/2/0
46/31/67/389/3/5
32/20/62/234/1/2
27/15/56/150/1/2
23/17/76/228/3/1
33/22/67/254/3/2
30/19/63/227/2/1
36/22/61/234/2/0
506/310/61/3658/25/20

QB #2
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
23/11/48/163/2/1
29/15/52/220/1/1
55/31/56/320/1/0
26/15/58/188/2/1
29/16/55/188/2/0
27/18/67/195/2/0
43/29/67/372/4/1
35/20/57/201/0/4
36/24/67/253/1/1
31/20/64/244/4/0
33/22/67/267/1/2
38/27/71/305/0/1
25/12/48/78/0/0
23/16/70/109/2/0
39/28/72/249/1/0
24/15/63/225/1/0
516/319/62/3529/24/12

Which is the NFL quarterback, and which is the IFL QB whose stats were influenced by the supposed 'big picture AI', and why?

[JesterBlaze]

The game has some blatant fuckups and IMO is off-balanced but it's the same way in week 1 as week 17. If there was some hidden code to make the stats "look right" at the end of the season then there'd be no complaining until the last couple of weeks of the season. We've had complaining all season long. :lol:



And in case anyone's confusing my stance being that I've complained before: I think Jim gives an honest effort into making a great game but just comes up short in some areas. I don't think the game "cheats" but it does give some positions/styles way more weight than I do however if you can bring yourself to "just go with it" (something it took me a while to do) and gameplan/GM for "FOF" instead of "football" you can be successful.

[r00k]

lput it under a microscope and you watch each game play out. now, let's say it's week 10 and we have our 5 stellar QB's playing their balls off. they're on pace for their 30+ td's, their 3,000+ passing yards, their sexy stats. these guys are tops in the IFL. which is the way you would say it is in real life. not every QB is Peyton Manning. so it's week 10 and now you look at the 2nd tier of QB's. a couple are starting to come on strong, but wait - if the AI lets that go unchecked then all of a sudden we have 8 stellar QB, 10 stellar QB's. that's too much, the gaming public crys out. well, jim can't allow too many awesome QB's in the game cuz that's not realistic. so what happens? funny things happen. bad playcalls are made

Let's look at game by game stats from last year of similar NFL and IFL quarterbacks:

QB #1
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
25/17/68/195/2/1
24/14/58/229/0/1
41/20/49/257/1/1
31/20/64/294/0/1
35/22/63/174/0/1
42/22/52/305/3/2
33/17/51/183/1/3
26/16/61/120/1/0
22/16/73/185/2/0
46/31/67/389/3/5
32/20/62/234/1/2
27/15/56/150/1/2
23/17/76/228/3/1
33/22/67/254/3/2
30/19/63/227/2/1
36/22/61/234/2/0
506/310/61/3658/25/20

QB #2
Att/Comp/%/Yds/TD/Int
23/11/48/163/2/1
29/15/52/220/1/1
55/31/56/320/1/0
26/15/58/188/2/1
29/16/55/188/2/0
27/18/67/195/2/0
43/29/67/372/4/1
35/20/57/201/0/4
36/24/67/253/1/1
31/20/64/244/4/0
33/22/67/267/1/2
38/27/71/305/0/1
25/12/48/78/0/0
23/16/70/109/2/0
39/28/72/249/1/0
24/15/63/225/1/0
516/319/62/3529/24/12

Which is the NFL quarterback, and which is the IFL QB whose stats were influenced by the supposed 'big picture AI', and why?

Amazing similarity is stats ... now I want to know who you are comparing Lozier to?

I also lean to your bias ... perhaps Tony Romo's botched 19 yard field goal attempt was another late game AI big picture adjustment also.

[Hell Atlantic]

this is the way i look at it (i believe i might've posted this before either here or in FOFC). look at OOTP. you can edit the universal settings so if you think too many HR's are being hit you can manipulate settings so across the board less HR's get hit going forward. now, say in 2007 in OOTP Ryan Howard hits 54 hr's which is tops for that year. you tweak the universal settings and decrease the league totals for HR's. in 2008 he hit 47 hr's and for the remainder of his career never tops 48. what happened between 2007 and 2008 to his ratings? nothing. he's still the same player, and maybe even developed further. but 5, 6 hr's that normally woulda left the park are now getting caught at the warning track.

you didn't edit anything about Ryan Howard. but the game, in order to reduce the amount of HR's being hit that year, decides that in order to take away some HR's things need to happen that maybe normally wouldn't have happened.

i think the same concept exists in FOF. in order to preserve the end of year totals that very closely mirrors the NFL the AI has to not necessarily "fudge" some plays, but increase the likelihood that certain things go in a team's favor and other things don't. think about it - if there wasn't any type of under the hood system of checks and balances then why is it you never see a QB pass for 60 td's, 70 td's? 6,000 passing yards? RB's rushing for 2,500+ yards year after year? 10 CB's getting 20+ int's? what's to stop that from happening? if it was left unchecked i'm sure you'd find some out-of-whack, unrealistic stats. so, we have some behind the scenes mechanisms in place to ensure that the end result remains intact.