Position Change

[Kobeck]

Adam Jones

In FOF he would have green bars for days and a red flag. He would always be employed because of those green bars - lol

[Hell Atlantic]

This is just wrong. 100% hilariously wrong.

you're wrong and retarded.

what team is going to invest tens of millions of dollars on a first round draft pick where the scout essentially says "well, we've watched tons of tape on this DE so we feel safe in recommending. just one thing, though, there's a good chance his pass rush strength is just a mirage and by the time his first season is over it'll be half of what it is now."

players get drafted based 75% on their tools, 25% on their interviews. their physical ability is the only sure thing scouts can go on. someone who can bench press weights 41 times doesn't magically lose that strength after one camp. and why don't you give us a name of any player ever drafted in the first round where their team has said "this guy is a toss-up, we're gonna give him a guaranteed bonus but we don't know how good or bad he is." there is no case in football where someone who comes out of training camp is considered a bust, who just a couple months prior wowed everyone at the combine or was an all-american. it doesn't happen. not that quickly.

[JesterBlaze]

:suicanesmunchies:

This one should get good.

[BuddaKINGII]

the scout variations are way off in the nfl. This is why if you have coaches and scouts that bank on the right players always win aka new england. These teams don't select the ryan leafs...

[Argot]

Everyone of these teams drafted thinking...this guy is it!

1. Ryan Leaf, Chargers (1998)
2. Lawrence Phillips, Rams (1996)
3. Art Schlichter, Colts (1982)
4. Heath Shuler, Redskins (1994)
5. Charles Rogers, Lions (2003)

6. Keith McCants, Buccaneers (1990)
7. Johnny "Lam" Jones, Jets (1980)
8. Mike Junkin, Browns (1987)
9. Bo Matthews, Chargers (1974)
10. Jerry Tagge, Packers (1972)

11. Jim Drukenmiller, 49ers (1997)
12. Andre Ware, Lions (1990)
13. Reggie Rogers, Lions (1987)
14. Joe Profit, Falcons (1971)
15. Huey Richardson, Steelers (1991)

16. Peter Warrick, Bengals (2000)
17. David Klingler, Bengals (1992)
18. Derek Brown, Giants (1992)
19. Tim Couch, Browns (1999)
20. Curtis Enis, Bears (1998)

21. Steve Niehaus, Seahawks (1976)
22. Blair Thomas, Jets (1990)
23. Kelly Stouffer, Cardinals (1987)
24. Tony Sacca, Cardinals (1992)
25. Tim Worley, Steelers (1989)

26. Jack Thompson, Bengals (1979)
27. Walt Patulski, Bills (1972)
28. Tony Mandarich, Packers (1989)
29. Todd Blackledge, Chiefs (1983)
30. Aaron Gibson, Lions (1999)

31. Todd Marinovich, Raiders (1991)
32. Andre Johnson, Redskins (1996)
33. Leeland McElroy, Cardinals (1996)
34. Craig Powell, Browns (1995)
35. Mike Elkins, Chiefs (1999)

36. Russell Erxleben, Saints (1979)
37. Patrick Bates, Raiders (1993)
38. Dan McGwire, Seahawks (1991)
39. Trezelle Jenkins, Chiefs (1995)
40. Cade McNown, Bears (1999)

41. Reggie Rembert, Jets (1990)
42. Akili Smith, Bengals (1999)
43. Mike Mamula, Eagles (1995)
44. Jonathan Sullivan, Saints (2003)
45. John Clay, Raiders (1987)

46. Alex Van Dyke, Jets (1996)
47. Maurice Clarett, Broncos (2005)
48. David LaFleur, Cowboys (1997)
49. Jon Harris, Eagles (1997)
50. Michael Westbrook, Redskins (1995)

[Kobeck]

It does happen, but they get hidden on the roster - dude plays ST or gets mystery injury. Too many reputations and jobs on the line to tell the owner that the first rounder was a bust out of TC

[JMO]

you're wrong and retarded.

what team is going to invest tens of millions of dollars on a first round draft pick where the scout essentially says "well, we've watched tons of tape on this DE so we feel safe in recommending. just one thing, though, there's a good chance his pass rush strength is just a mirage and by the time his first season is over it'll be half of what it is now."

players get drafted based 75% on their tools, 25% on their interviews. their physical ability is the only sure thing scouts can go on. someone who can bench press weights 41 times doesn't magically lose that strength after one camp. and why don't you give us a name of any player ever drafted in the first round where their team has said "this guy is a toss-up, we're gonna give him a guaranteed bonus but we don't know how good or bad he is." there is no case in football where someone who comes out of training camp is considered a bust, who just a couple months prior wowed everyone at the combine or was an all-american. it doesn't happen. not that quickly.

You are moving the goal posts.

You said that no first round player is a question mark. Of course they are. There is no such thing as a lock as you don't know how their skills will translate to the NFL.

Players bust every year, year in year out. Therefore every player is a question mark.


BTW someone who bench presses 41 times might have mediocre pass rush strength in real life. The bench press is not the best indicator of that.

To address your asinine points individually.

what team is going to invest tens of millions of dollars on a first round draft pick where the scout essentially says "well, we've watched tons of tape on this DE so we feel safe in recommending. just one thing, though, there's a good chance his pass rush strength is just a mirage and by the time his first season is over it'll be half of what it is now."

No, but they will draft a guy who has the potential to be a great pass rusher but also the potential to eat his way out of the league/stop playing once he gets paid/take plays off. FOF has no way of simulating these things so it uses the random boom/bust.

why don't you give us a name of any player ever drafted in the first round where their team has said "this guy is a toss-up, we're gonna give him a guaranteed bonus but we don't know how good or bad he is." there is no case in football where someone who comes out of training camp is considered a bust, who just a couple months prior wowed everyone at the combine or was an all-american. it doesn't happen. not that quickly.

Again this is the way FOF simulates real life drop off. I'm not sure it doesn't happen that quickly anyway. After first camp the coaches know way more about a player. I'm sure there are occasions when behind closed doors they say this guy isn't what we thought he was. They would never say it publicly but these things would be known around the league.

[JesterBlaze]

the scout variations are way off in the nfl. This is why if you have coaches and scouts that bank on the right players always win aka new england. These teams don't select the ryan leafs...

I have no personal stake in rooting for the team and I despise Rat Lewis but the Ravens are the team I admire most for drafting well and player evaluation.

[Argot]

For someone that doesn't like the Ravens, Lawrence sure imitates them well.

[Hell Atlantic]

JMO makes no sense at all.

no scout will see Ryan Leaf in the combine and video tape and say "this guy is a LOCK and is a guaranteed HOF" and then 3 months later after training camp say "ummm...we were wrong, he doesn't know how to throw very well".

what part of that don't you understand???

FOF is different. it'll show you an Albert Schwartz type player pre-camp and then after camp he'll bust and drop 30 points. that doesn't happen in real life. all the guys that were listed were busts, yes, but you don't get called a bust after training camp. there's simply too much tape and scouting and information out there for people to not have a good idea what you can and can't do *physically speaking*. now, if you can't take the pressure of having a big contract and living up to expectations or if you party too much cuz you're now a millionaire, then yes, that'll make you bust and not allow you to use your skills to their utmost. but you don't all of a sudden lose your ability to throw the long ball after training camp. you don't forget how to connect on a screen pass after training camp for no reason.

if anything, what should bust is maybe the "2 minute offense" rating. maybe the game moves too quickly for a young stud QB to be able to use his skills. "third down" rating should be another one. maybe the jump from college defense to pro defense is too difficult for some QBs to move the chains on the all-important 3rd down. those are mental. some people can't take the pressure. but physical ratings? no. you don't lose ability that quickly. Mike Vick has been out of football for 2 years now, and you could put him in pads right now and he'd run circles around defenders and hit a WR for a downfield strike. and this is someone who's been out of football for a while. Vince Young is most likely a bust, but put him on a team and let him start and he'd have the physical tools to get the job done. mentally is a different story.

JMO is not a smart person.

[JMO]

Yikes. I'll leave it here I think. You didn't read what I wrote or chose not to.

I hope your guy doesn't bust as obviously that is where all this angst is coming from.

[JesterBlaze]

The knock on Devin Hester during the draft process was a lack of speed. Didn't take long for that "boom" to happen.

[Argot]

ok...I actually understood what you said HA. In fairness the green bars shouldn't move after TC, but over the course of the year, two years, three years, drop, if the player struggles statistically. The red bars would never improve with a bust, ala Kyle Boller who maybe started 24/75 and later matriculated into a 30/40 QB over 4-5 years. Hence (24/75) maybe 26/74 after TC, moving to 27/70 by the end of year one. 27/65 by the end of year two. 30/50 end of year three. 30/40 current (He may still have some potential if he left Baltimore). I could live with that. But then that's not FOF. : )

[JMO]

ok...I actually understood what you said HA. In fairness the green bars shouldn't move after TC, but over the course of the year, two years, three years, drop, if the player struggles statistically. The red bars would never improve with a bust, ala Kyle Boller who maybe started 24/75 and later matriculated into a 30/40 QB over 4-5 years. Hence (24/75) maybe 26/74 after TC, moving to 27/70 by the end of year one. 27/65 by the end of year two. 30/50 end of year three. 30/40 current (He may still have some potential if he left Baltimore). I could live with that. But then that's not FOF. : )

Yea but we don't get the benefit of watching guys in camp. Also the statistics in game aren't really sophisticated enough to seperate a guy from those around him.

I think its possible that Ravens staff knew he was a 30/40 guy pretty early.

The busrs and booms are there to simulate things we can't see in the game i suppose.

[JesterBlaze]

Am I correct in that FOF only goes one way though? Like no one booms then busts or busts then booms? Just a gradual transition one way or the other with the occasional 30 pointer?