2 year deals...

[Jave]

Ok guys. I don't mind being outbid. I can be cheap and if I am cheap and lose out to someone with more cash, fine. Cool. But I am noticing a tread I am not happy with. Bash me as a poor loser if you will, but I feel some guys are using these 2 year deals with huge bonus's unfairly.
This is a game mechanic that I feel is being used in to gain an unfair advantage during free agency. Offer a 2 year deal with a monster bonus. The first year is to get the guy, the second year is to assure you can resign him to a normal contract. I know the game. I been around the block a few times. But I have never seen, or mabe I have just never noticed GM's using this as a tool to get players to sign with them.

Rook...bro. Your one of the best owners in this league, but that a bullshit contract(Silas). You know it to. Others have done this and mabe I just never paid attention but this is a problem. When players use the game mechanic to their advantage, I would like to see a rule put in place to stop this.

If I am out of line, fine. But we all know how to work the game to our advantage. But why do it?

[George W Bush]

stop being a faggot

[Jave]

stop being a faggot

If you don't have anything to add, just STFU! I expected better from you. You ran one of the best leagues around. Try to think before you speak next time.

[sovstar]

What would a potential rule look like and what would it be trying to accomplish? What kind of 2-year deals would be considered acceptable (or wouldn't there be such a thing)?

[sovstar]

FWIW the prize free agent (IMO) is only being offered 3-year deals, not counting the 2-year deal Oakland is proposing.

[dberner30]

this debate is tired and stale...heard it in several different leagues...

i agree with jave generally but GWB has a great point cuz he is a faggot (thats a joke before you get worked up)...

the rule probably should be something like if a player asks for more than 2 yrs as part of his asking you cant offer less...maybe the bonus cant exceed 50% of the offer etc...these are the tired proposals going around....there does appear to be a bug on the AI being tricked by 2 yr deals and deciding against higher quality longer term deals...

im not really sure what the beef on Silas is...he turned down about 4 or 5 other 2 yr deals that had less money involved...this one looks legit...dont worry jave...he is a bum...thats why he isnt with the Outlaws next year...

the one that looks stinkiest from this perspective is OT Wes Herndon..he turned down long term deals for a 2 yr gonna get resigned for cheap or franchised shithole deal...this one looks like the AI being tricked...OG Arteaga could be that way as well by taking a shorter 1 yr deal but I cant recall my bonus offer so it could be a better 1 yr deal with good guaranteed compared to my primarily base salary offer so this one may be an example...

if i were to point out an example the OT Herndon deal is it for this year...only a moron agent/player takes the 2 yr deal here when he had such big money on the table...i guess we would have to look at the long term bonus money being paid to be sure...

[Jave]

What would a potential rule look like and what would it be trying to accomplish? What kind of 2-year deals would be considered acceptable (or wouldn't there be such a thing)?

My idea, while not perfect by any means is:

For instance. When I clicked "offer contract" to Herndon, he wanted a 5 year deal. So I bid the max on a 5 year deal thinking, mabe incorrectly, that was the contract that he desired. Los Angeles offered him a 2 year deal with a monster bonus but little salary. That was actually the first instance of what I consider, using the game mechanics to work for you. If a player wants a 5 year contract, then let the players bid on the 5 year contract.
If a player only wants a one year deal, fine, offer whatever. Whatever wins that player.
I don't mind losing a player to a higher bidder. Chad Strong is a perfect example. Reno just plain outbid me on the same 4 year deal and I didn't get another round to try to outbid him. Fine, cool. But Reno didn't use a game mechanic to win the bid. He just outbid everyone else.

[sovstar]

if i were to point out an example the OT Herndon deal is it for this year...only a moron agent/player takes the 2 yr deal here when he had such big money on the table...i guess we would have to look at the long term bonus money being paid to be sure...

Yeah, it is tough to make any comparison between deals without knowing the bonus money involved in the rejected offers. If someone offered Herndon ~80-90% bonus/yr (80% would be 3.7 bonus/yr) of what hawkster offered, I'd say their is a problem. Did anyone actually offer him around 18-19 million in bonus for five years? I highly doubt it.

[Hell Atlantic]

i don't think there's a problem. either you want a guy or you don't. if you want a guy you'll bid what you think is enough to get him. you wanna dick around then you risk someone else snatching them up. people can't cry about everything all the time.

[Jave]

Yeah, it is tough to make any comparison between deals without knowing the bonus money involved in the rejected offers. If someone offered Herndon ~80-90% bonus/yr (80% would be 3.7 bonus/yr) of what hawkster offered, I'd say their is a problem. Did anyone actually offer him around 18-19 million in bonus for five years? I highly doubt it.

My problem here Jeff is I offered him a 28 million dollar, 5 year deal. The bonus, while I do not remember the exact amount was around 9 million. This tells me that the 2 year deal, while good money wise, was much less then I was offering him. The salary per year from what he has now was less by 500,000 a year. I think my first year salary offer was 4.5 mill a year, with the final year being around 7 a year. Add the 9 mil bonus and Randy Moss himself would salvate over this deal. The fact he took 12 mill and left 16 million dollars on the table begs the question. Why?

[Jave]

i don't think there's a problem. either you want a guy or you don't. if you want a guy you'll bid what you think is enough to get him. you wanna dick around then you risk someone else snatching them up. people can't cry about everything all the time.

No HA. What I hear you saying is, "if you know how to work the game to your advantage and you do not, thats your tough luck".
It's not crying to wonder why a player leaves a 28 million dollar deal to take a 12 million dollar deal. How many NFL players are taking 2 year deals? Do you really think a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would sign a 2 year deal? And how many NFL owners would sign good players to such short contracts? While Herndon was not a Tom Brady, he was still one of the best players in free agency this year. Why leave 16 million dollars on the table?

[sovstar]

The bonus, while I do not remember the exact amount was around 9 million.

Did you offer him 9 million in bonus? Because if you did, you've got no argument. Bonus is king. It's money in the bank for the player as soon as a deal is signed. If a guy gets injured and cut (like Bice) he'll miss out on much of the salary he was due in the later years.

[Hell Atlantic]

No HA. What I hear you saying is, "if you know how to work the game to your advantage and you do not, thats your tough luck".
It's not crying to wonder why a player leaves a 28 million dollar deal to take a 12 million dollar deal. How many NFL players are taking 2 year deals? Do you really think a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would sign a 2 year deal? And how many NFL owners would sign good players to such short contracts? While Herndon was not a Tom Brady, he was still one of the best players in free agency this year. Why leave 16 million dollars on the table?

FOF is not a 100% representation of NFL, it doesn't know how to accurately model supply/demand. you can't pick and choose when to play FOF football and when to play NFL football. we play FOF. it has slightly different rules. you think GMs would just spend money just cuz they have it? or maybe they'd make their owner happy and not spend money just to spend it and maybe try to turn a profit. i can assure you no one in any MP is trying to turn a profit. i've long abandoned that. i wish we were able to be fired in MP leagues for running teams into the red, but that won't happen. just take the game for what it's worth. as hard as you try to operate like a real GM would, an actual GM would still laugh at you if you thought you tried to compare how you run your fake team to how he runs a real life team.

of the long list of things to get pissed about, this is far down the list. hate to be honest with ya.

[r00k]

Jave ...

I am sympathetic with your opinion.

I got outbid on Herndon too. I checked the winning bid and adjusted my bid for Silas accordingly to reflect alot of guaranteed money.

However, the difference in the two situations is that Silas only asked for two years ... and fortunately, I put the highest "two year bid" on the board ... whether it was mostly guaranteed or not is not relative since the high bid could only have been beat by more money on the table.

I've have seen the debate that dB is referring too. I have no problem supporting a rule that the league would want to adopt. But as for Silas, I think I got him fair and square with his specific circumstances. You probably are reacting to losing out on the tackles with similar bids.

[Hell Atlantic]

it's not like you can't see what other teams are offering. you just can't see what the bonus money is. if you really want a guy it's just a simple matter of offering more than the other team and making sure you don't skimp on guaranteed money. not hard to figure out. you wanna get cute with offers go ahead, it only makes it easier for me to sign players.