IFL DB Data gathering

[JesterBlaze]

BTW - I don't doubt the possibility that there is some (non-real-life-football) logic to FOF that would make sense to video game fans, I just think a football sim should have nothing but a GUI learning curve for football fans. I have noticed certain areas of FOF that I believe to be way out of balance and I could stack my team in those areas but I don't believe a team stacked at OL, CB or any position is a real football team and I fear that as soon as I go to that level Jim will come out with a patch... and my opinion of patches without refunds is simple: Give me the interest you've collected on the payment for my product that you accepted before it was ready.

There are many teams in FOF built on strenghts and yet football does not attack your strengths... it attacks your weaknesses... over and over and over again until you stop it.... there is nothign wrong with a football gameplan that runs straight up the middle ALL DAY until you stop it, not going back to other plays due to some strange percentage reflection of football.

As I said I believe there is a certain strategy to FOF... jsut not football strategy...

for instance...

Why can't I decide how long I trust my kicker to do FG?
Why can't I decide to double team the stud TE all day?
Why can't I decide to tell my GD punter that when punting from inside the 50 that I care less about anything but him punting a touchback?
Why can't I decide that I want 11 in the box if I feel a team honestly doesn't have a chance in hell at beating me with their WRs?
Why can't I decide to run a one-gap or two-gap defense?
Why can't I tell how good my WRs are at run-blocking?
Why can't players play up to their ratings, not OVR's, but individually? How does a DB with 0 in INT rating get an INT? How does a pass-rusher with 0 pass rushing ability get a sack?

[JesterBlaze]

I'm not exactly sure of the issues Lawrence has with the game, but i've noticed some weird things about it. It's frustrating, but most games are at some point so I don't let it get to me too much.. only right after I lose

For the record it's not only after wins I question this... last "week" I broke the IFL record for pts scored (a legitimate feat in another game)... does it mean anyting? NO!... I didn't do much different in that gameplan than the other games against Newark. It apears to be stricly luck and it sucks on both hands from the perspective of someone who wants to have a legitimate battle of gameplanning against my respective opponents.

[JesterBlaze]

Heck, given enough time you can really do wonders with the game plan if you know what you're doing.

I'd make a bet with ANYONE to run an FOF sim of two teams (Team "A" a stronger team and Team "B" a weaker team) taking the weaker of the two 20 times against a 5 year old and challenge them to win 20 games.... If it's skill then I don't see anyway a 5 year old can beat a grown man (or woman) ONCE in the game.

[MrBigglesworth]

And the fact that my QB who has almost a full rating of 100 in avoiding INTs just threw FOUR!! Now I will certainly debate against a generic "avoiding INT" rating but if you're going to have it in the game then a perfect score in that rating should equivilate to ZERO interceptions.

My scout says he is closer to a 66 at avoiding interceptions. Joe Montana threw 10-13 int's per year, similar to what Hairston has done.

[JesterBlaze]

And the fact that my QB who has almost a full rating of 100 in avoiding INTs just threw FOUR!! Now I will certainly debate against a generic "avoiding INT" rating but if you're going to have it in the game then a perfect score in that rating should equivilate to ZERO interceptions.

My scout says he is closer to a 66 at avoiding interceptions. Joe Montana threw 10-13 int's per year, similar to what Hairston has done.

Does your scout really say that??? I'll admit 100% that I'm wrong in that case as mine says 100 and I've never seen anything over like 5 pts or so in scout differential in FOF....

BTW - Please tell me if so as believe it or not I'd rather be wrong than right in this instance by a LOT as I (like many of you) have a serious football sim void in my life. lol

[MrBigglesworth]

Heck, given enough time you can really do wonders with the game plan if you know what you're doing.

I'd make a bet with ANYONE to run an FOF sim of two teams (Team "A" a stronger team and Team "B" a weaker team) taking the weaker of the two 20 times against a 5 year old and challenge them to win 20 games.... If it's skill then I don't see anyway a 5 year old can beat a grown man (or woman) ONCE in the game.

The biggest part of the game is assembling a team. That's where you gain the initial advantage. Compare it to chess. The situation you describe is similar to giving a kid a queen and a knight against your rook. Even with your tactics advantage, you won't be able to overcome the material advantage and win 20 games in a row.

[JesterBlaze]

Heck, given enough time you can really do wonders with the game plan if you know what you're doing.

I'd make a bet with ANYONE to run an FOF sim of two teams (Team "A" a stronger team and Team "B" a weaker team) taking the weaker of the two 20 times against a 5 year old and challenge them to win 20 games.... If it's skill then I don't see anyway a 5 year old can beat a grown man (or woman) ONCE in the game.

The biggest part of the game is assembling a team. That's where you gain the initial advantage. Compare it to chess. The situation you describe is similar to giving a kid a queen and a knight against your rook. Even with your tactics advantage, you won't be able to overcome the material advantage and win 20 games in a row.

Against a 5 year old I would... and I don't think the tactics are nearly the same...


I don't think of myself as a noob at all in football (all though for this argument my thoughts of myself don't matter) and in this situation I HAVE stacked my team against all but a couple in this league (which I've never complained about my losses to but have noticed them lose to "lesser teams" which makes me think that someone with enough "football smarts" to beat me and a well GM'd team should be able to be a lesser team).

[Warhammer]

Heck, given enough time you can really do wonders with the game plan if you know what you're doing.

I'd make a bet with ANYONE to run an FOF sim of two teams (Team "A" a stronger team and Team "B" a weaker team) taking the weaker of the two 20 times against a 5 year old and challenge them to win 20 games.... If it's skill then I don't see anyway a 5 year old can beat a grown man (or woman) ONCE in the game.

The biggest part of the game is assembling a team. That's where you gain the initial advantage. Compare it to chess. The situation you describe is similar to giving a kid a queen and a knight against your rook. Even with your tactics advantage, you won't be able to overcome the material advantage and win 20 games in a row.

Against a 5 year old I would... and I don't think the tactics are nearly the same...


I don't think of myself as a noob at all in football (all though for this argument my thoughts of myself don't matter) and in this situation I HAVE stacked my team against all but a couple in this league (which I've never complained about my losses to but have noticed them lose to "lesser teams" which makes me think that someone with enough "football smarts" to beat me and a well GM'd team should be able to be a lesser team).

OK, take my roster from this year. Should I have won the games I have? I have been in every game I have played this year, and could have won all of them. Yet, in each game I have had the worse talent on both sides of the ball.

[MrBigglesworth]

And the fact that my QB who has almost a full rating of 100 in avoiding INTs just threw FOUR!! Now I will certainly debate against a generic "avoiding INT" rating but if you're going to have it in the game then a perfect score in that rating should equivilate to ZERO interceptions.

My scout says he is closer to a 66 at avoiding interceptions. Joe Montana threw 10-13 int's per year, similar to what Hairston has done.

Does your scout really say that??? I'll admit 100% that I'm wrong in that case as mine says 100 and I've never seen anything over like 5 pts or so in scout differential in FOF....

BTW - Please tell me if so as believe it or not I'd rather be wrong than right in this instance by a LOT as I (like many of you) have a serious football sim void in my life. lol

I'm retarded, I looked up the Louisiana QB intead of the Lawrence one. Yes, I have him at 100, but my point is still the same: Montana's record for most INT's thrown is four, and he is seen as one of if not the best QB and was not known for throwing picks. Last year Stanfield had 8 picks, while Montana averaged 10-13 every season during his peak. Law of averages though says he will have some bad games. I will not deny that there is a lot of luck to fof, but there is a lot of luck to real football too. Miami beat San Diego this week. San Fran has actually won a game. The Giants had to go to OT to beat the Eagles JV squad. It's like baseball, even the best team in the world will not win 162 games, but you make the team as best you can so that you have a 65% chance of winning every game. You will still have four game losing streaks when the dice don't come out in your favor, but by having the best talent and the best gameplan you insure (ensure?) that you have the best chance to get the good dice roll.

[sovstar]

I think guys should explode whenever they are blocked by Oakland's Wayne Rogers.

[Cringer]

Something like INT's has more to do with a QB though. Did the WR run a shitty route? The DB make a great play? A QB with a 100 rating for Avoid INT's equaling 0 INT's would be more unrealistic then what you are complaining about Jester.

No the game is not perfect, but it gets better each time.

[SteveBsFan]

After doing more thinking, I think the game may improve just by putting more detail into the logs. A QB with 100 avoid INT's shouldn't throw 4 picks in a game, but it can happen even in real life. Tom Brady, who is a very accurate passer would probably be rated 90+ if he were converted to FoF. That being said, since his rookie season, he's had at least one 4 pick game each year except 2003, when he went through a three game slump of 7 picks in those games. I can't explain why every season, but his 4 pick game this year had a lot to do with some bad luck. When you throw to a receiver, and it hits him in the hands but pops out into a defender, it's hard to put a lot of blame on the QB. Of course the stats blame him, but most know not every pick is the QB's fault.

If FoF had a little more detail in the logs, maybe it could explain why situations like that happen. Looking at the Lawrence game, 3 of the INT's came in the 2nd half when the team was down by 18, then 12 then 15. Naturally Lawrence was going to throw more, and Columbia knew it so it increases the odds of a pick even from good QB's. If Stanfield throws one pick on his own out of the final three, and the other two were bad luck due to receivers bobbling balls, getting hit while catching, etc it wouldn't look as bad on the QB. In the logs however, it just shows which CB picked it making it sound like the QB suddenly decided he didn't know how to throw.

I know most real game logs don't go into detail either, but in real life we have the luxury of actually watching the play and seeing a receiver mistake opposed to a QB mistake. All we have to go by in game are the logs, so as much detail for certain plays would be better imo. "Screen pass to the right side", "Caught up the middle", "Jones really fooled Sandstrom on that play making him wide open on the right side", "ball tipped off the DT's hands into the arms of the CB", etc. Best of all, it may explain why my starting running back sits for a qtr of the game. If he's injured, that's fine. If the game just decides he shouldn't play, well why bother wasting time on gameplanning.

Like I said though, I like the game, it has it's flaws and isn't perfect, but would be nice if they were just a little more detailed in the logs.

[Matt]

To add to this discussion...............

In my blowout loss to LAW, I had gameplanned to cover the top WR set at 100. Everytime the ball was thrown to Ramos, the log said that Stanfield threw away from the double coverage. How does that happen, when ratings wise, Ramos is the best WR on the field?

My second beef was with my defensive playcalling. I was playing a lot of 4 deep zone coverage throughout the game, even though I have that set to 0 in all my gameplans. I was in dime packages while doing this, while having this set below 40. Was it just random? Or was my coach outsmarting everyone? Or did my coach used to hang out in Murfreesboro?

I love FOF a lot, and addmittidly I'm not a very good gameplanner. When stuff happens like this, coupled with the fact I just had 48pts pasted on me, it gets frustrating. I think the game is 65% gameplanning to your players strength, and 35% random outcomes throughout a game.

[Cringer]

I think part of the problem is a mis-understanding of the 100 for this or that.

Not everything is a percentage, like running or pass coverage type. Something like double coverage is just a setting number. 50 doesn't mean 50% of the time, 50 is the average. Meaning your coach will have double coverage, or blitz, or whatever, called roughly an average amount compared to the rest of the league.

So 100 should be a lot more, but it is NOT 100% of the time.

[Warhammer]

My second beef was with my defensive playcalling. I was playing a lot of 4 deep zone coverage throughout the game, even though I have that set to 0 in all my gameplans. I was in dime packages while doing this, while having this set below 40. Was it just random? Or was my coach outsmarting everyone? Or did my coach used to hang out in Murfreesboro?

I love FOF a lot, and addmittidly I'm not a very good gameplanner. When stuff happens like this, coupled with the fact I just had 48pts pasted on me, it gets frustrating. I think the game is 65% gameplanning to your players strength, and 35% random outcomes throughout a game.

A couple of quick comments:

Check your situationals regarding the 4 deep zone. I find a lot of the time that I forgot to reset a setting somewhere with my coverages when I play a coverage that "shouldn't be in there" (my words).

Regarding the second point, having an ideal gameplan should not work 100% of the time. Many times a team just doesn't get up for a game, or fails to execute the game plan properly. That HAS to be relected by random outcomes. Also, many people forget about a coach's motivational ratings which can explain why a player may play above or below his ratings for certain teams or situations. There is a lot going on under the hood, and occassionally, Jim will let a few things slip out at the IHOF boards.