Processed: Oakland/Portland

[jeffrey]

Dakota, BOSS, Mike. Get a grip. Seriously. If you disagree with the trade, you have every right to do so. However, show some fucking respect. Lay off the personal attacks and ridicule.

Now, let's step through this trade with a little less bombast and ridiculous statements (the tackles are equal, for instance. seriously, I don't remember who said this but it's absurd and just makes it impossible to take you seriously)

Stickney - top rated offensive lineman in the league. Worth a top-5 pick, no doubt.

Erbaugh - Solid but not great tackle. Worth a low first.
Farley - Stellar CB but only a season or two left and not at his highest level. Worth a low first.
Future 1st - Jave has been drafting in the bottom half of the draft so this is likely a low first, too. Also, future picks are devalued, so this is a low first in value at best.

Add it up. Three low first equals about a top-5 pick. I'll let you find the chart yourselves. You can say that I got a good deal if you like, but when you start talking about "competition committee" action needed, you're just exaggerating and I hope you know it. I had other offers on par with this one, by the way.

Jave wanted an upgrade at LT and he wanted to move the CB. I had other offers that he had to match in value.

[Mike17]

Dakota, BOSS, Mike. Get a grip. Seriously. If you disagree with the trade, you have every right to do so. However, show some fucking respect. Lay off the personal attacks and ridicule.

Now, let's stop through this trade with a little less bombast and ridiculous statements (the tackles are equal, for instance. seriously, I don't remember who said this but it's absurd and just makes it impossible to take you seriously)

Stickney - top rated offensive lineman in the league. Worth a top-5 pick, no doubt.

Erbaugh - Solid but not great tackle. Worth a low first.
Farley - Stellar CB but only a season or two left and not at his hightest level. Worth a low first.
Future 1st - Jave has been drafting in the bottom half of the draft so this is likely a low first, too. Also, future picks are devalued, so this is a low first in value at best.

Add it up. Three low first equals about a top-5 pick. I'll let you find the chart yourselves. You can say that I got a good deal if you like, but when you start talking about "competition committee" action needed, you're just exaggerating and I hope you know it. I had other offers on par with this one, by the way.

Jave wanted an upgrade at LT and he wanted to move the CB. I had other offers that he had to match in value.

Ok. I apologize for getting amped up about this. Talking to Jave is frustrating when half the league is saying "Hey this doesn't seem fair" and he sticks his fingers in his ears.

I don't care what the value chart says. No one would trade a top 5 pick for a 5th yr tackle and even if they would, a top 5 pick is not worth 3 1sts.

That's the last thing I'll say about it

[SteveBsFan]

If it's acceptable to throw away talent for cap room, Throw some my way next time

I hope that's the way of the future IFL to be honest.

I like this trade, really. It hopefully shows the future economics of the league. We see stuff like this in the NFL. Teams often trade players for compensation we boggle over, but there are a lot of things behind the scenes we can't see.

Farley was a 9th year CB who has a $13m cap hit. While he did produce (11 picks over the last 3 years), Oakland was going to get rid of him through FA or eventually a trade to land him a 2nd or 3rd round pick (unless he got lucky and found a GM willing to give him a 1st).

Teams like Dakota can bash the trade with their $32m cap space, but reality is, Jave has a lot of expensive studs on his team, and simply won't be able to afford Farley, so he was more of a toss in to secure the best LT in the league.

On paper, Jave certainly overpaid, but by no means is this is situation that remotely needs a league review.

I also hope to see more studs be sold for cheap in the league as people start catching up to the cap again.

[Jave]

Another thing that's been lost in the whole argument is Troy himself. People are acting like he's some minor upgrade that I massively overpaid for:




According to the game, he's THE best LT in the league. This wasn't a small move by any means. Why people are devaluing Troy is beyond me.

[Chris Rex]

Another thing that's been lost in the whole argument is Troy himself. People are acting like he's some minor upgrade that I massively overpaid for:




According to the game, he's THE best LT in the league. This wasn't a small move by any means. Why people are devaluing Troy is beyond me.

On that note (and this has nothing to do with the trade), I for one prefer to look at production versus stats.

Qb 'Fuckin' Hamilton was not the highest rated QB last year, but he played like his stats were double everyone elses.

If you check the T's stats, they were not night and day by any stretch.

Again, this is not to rag on the trade, just giving you my thoughts on the 'straight numbers' youre presenting.

[jeffrey]

The stats are almost never night and day not matter the difference between players. Not only that, but the most important stat for an OT is not even tracked individually.

I'm talking about hurries. Sacks are determined largely by the QBs sense rush, while hurries are determined by the o-line. I had the top oline in pass protection (opponent PR%) last season. Why do you think that is?

[Jave]

On that note (and this has nothing to do with the trade), I for one prefer to look at production versus stats.

Qb 'Fuckin' Hamilton was not the highest rated QB last year, but he played like his stats were double everyone elses.

If you check the T's stats, they were not night and day by any stretch.

Again, this is not to rag on the trade, just giving you my thoughts on the 'straight numbers' youre presenting.

I'll give ya that, I totally agree. However keep in mind as I mentioned earlier. When you have Caro, Field and Robinson, and your best RB is 45 rated Devaney, it's not like your gonna focus on a power running gameplan. And where do offense lineman get their stats? Pancakes, key run blocks and blocking %. If a team isn't running the ball a lot, those opportunities just arn't there.
Just look at my RT Duane Barton. He's 2 time All League 1st Team Tackle. It's not because he's such a great pass protector now is it?(rated 28) It's because Wilson loves to run around his side because he's a bad ass RUN BLOCKER. The more Wilson runs to his side, the more opportunities Barton has, the better his stats look.
Randy Moss may be the greatest receiver in the league, but if he doesn't get the ball thrown his way(see his years in Oakland) his stats are crap.

[Chris Rex]

I had the top oline in pass protection (PD%) last season. Why do you think that is?

Passing COHESION :-) (Yes, I know the OL cohesion is lower)


On a side note, I have said my peace. I am absolutely content to abide by the powers that be.

[Jave]

Passing COHESION :-) (Yes, I know the OL cohesion is lower)


On a side note, I have said my peace. I am absolutely content to abide by the powers that be.

I would say you don't pass up adding the best LT in the IFL to your roster because your cohesion will take a hit. I'll take my chances with that move.

[Mike17]

I would say you don't pass up adding the best LT in the IFL to your roster because your cohesion will take a hit. I'll take my chances with that move.

Rex meant that Jeffrey's pass game did well because of his Passing cohesion. Which is unrelated to the Oline

[Chris Rex]

I would say you don't pass up adding the best LT in the IFL to your roster because your cohesion will take a hit. I'll take my chances with that move.

This has nothing to do with YOUR roster, just addressing the 'why were we best in pass protection'.

If Im NOT mistaken, you guys (oakland)were actually really good as well as far as pass protection % according to the game stats he was using.

Again, not even talking about the trade anymore.

[Matt]

The stats are almost never night and day not matter the difference between players. Not only that, but the most important stat for an OT is not even tracked individually.

I'm talking about hurries. Sacks are determined largely by the QBs sense rush, while hurries are determined by the o-line. I had the top oline in pass protection (PD%) last season. Why do you think that is?

good point.

again, we will see the trade play out in the season. With Stickney run blocking moreso, his KRB will go up.

[Jave]

This has nothing to do with YOUR roster, just addressing the 'why were we best in pass protection'.

If Im NOT mistaken, you guys (oakland)were actually really good as well as far as pass protection % according to the game stats he was using.

Again, not even talking about the trade anymore.

Umm, I will have to look at that stat. To be honest, last season because of the injury to Donovan I tried to only pass to open up the run game so I didn't pay much attention to pass related statistics.

[JesterBlaze]

I don't think this trade is bad at all. In fact if I'm Portland I don't make it and I sit on one of the league's top overall talents. If Oakland's original 2019 pick is somehow a top 10, which I doubt it will be, then the Seals lose Farley real quick (2-3 seasons at degrading skill level?) and this trade becomes Stickney's career vs Erbaugh and the gamble jeffrey takes with the pick.

The meat of this debate rides on Erbaugh's believed value and the "stats vs bars" argument it seems to me.

The only thing more ridiculous than calling going from a 60 OVR to a 90+ OVR a slight upgrade is the fact that Jave chose Erbaugh over Stickney in the draft to start all this.

[Matt]

The only thing more ridiculous than calling going from a 60 OVR to a 90+ OVR a slight upgrade is the fact that Jave chose Erbaugh over Stickney in the draft to start all this.

lol
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