Current state of NFL.

[Matt]

How did that work for the XFL?

perhaps the XFL didn't work because there wasn't enough money to fully make it work. that money comes from the owners.

[Mike17]

perhaps the XFL didn't work because there wasn't enough money to fully make it work. that money comes from the owners.

Also, the XFL had competition. If the NFL is basically the only game in town, with a bunch of revenue behind it, and great advetising, it should work out much better.

[Matt]

wonder how the UFL will make out this fall if the NFL is still not going on.

[JesterBlaze]

when i say the owners built the league, i mean they built it to what it is today. They made it the biggest sport in north america. They did the work to make it that.

Just so we're on the same page are we considering work to be actual exertion? I certainly don't consider writing checks any more work than the girl at the movie theater ripping tickets... and choosing employees is simply shopping, a leisure activity that many humans love to engage in.

In what other privately owned companies do the workers get to see financials, let alone 10 yrs of audited financials.

In an honest government it should be every single one. Those with obvious greed issues should be publicly scrutinized.

Now, the NFL is admittedly run waaay better than the average US business - due in large part to public scrutiny - so if you point to the US norm for the ethical guideline on... well, anything... then I think there's a difference in fundamental thinking that hits on almost everything in life.

I can extrapolate my thoughts on the NFL situation to every business in the world: The owner deserves pittance at best unless that owner is an owner/worker in the "exertion" sense of the word "worker".

[SteveBsFan]

I can see a bump in ratings a little, as most things will that usually air on Sundays.

As a fan (and this goes back to Jester's original issue), I wouldn't go watching another random league because it's almost like just randomly going to some high school and watching them play. I have no attachment to the team, the players, or anything.

If every player hypothetically joined a league like the UFL, it would still be different. It would be something to watch on Sunday's, but I certainly wouldn't have the same interest I do now. Just moving the players to a new league loses a lot of the cohesion the NFL has from rivalries to little quirks like the Dolphins struggling up in NE cold weather, but then the Pats having trouble in the Miami heat. Never mind the league history, records, and everything that goes along with that. All the draft picks the Pats have accumulated would be obsolete, which is one of the huge reasons I look forward to the draft.

Not only that, there is no way the UFL could support a complete move.. even if they found upwards of 25 owners willing to front the money to get new stadium deals going with *puke* indoor arenas like hockey rinks, or *lesser puke, but longshot* college stadiums, they'd still lose many full teams which means a complete player re-shuffle would happen (like the 2003 IFL draft), so the players I've grown to root for would all be spread around the league randomly. That would suck.

Basically it would be pushing the 'reset' button on football which would kill a lot of interest from me, and I doubt I'd be alone there.

[Argot]

I can extrapolate my thoughts on the NFL situation to every business in the world: The owner deserves pittance at best unless that owner is an owner/worker in the "exertion" sense of the word "worker".

Long live the revolution!

Long live the insurgent proletariat!


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Great Discussion!!!


I will go on to say, for those who have caught a glimpse of "Undercover Boss", do all business owners on that show come across incompetent in the jobs that they have the responsibility of administering?

[Matt]

Long live the revolution!

Long live the insurgent proletariat!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Discussion!!!


I will go on to say, for those who have caught a glimpse of "Undercover Boss", do all business owners on that show come across incompetent in the jobs that they have the responsibility of administering?

they do it for self gratification

[Kobeck]

often been the case with me that my boss could not do my job. Don't bother me too much.

[Matt]

Just so we're on the same page are we considering work to be actual exertion? I certainly don't consider writing checks any more work than the girl at the movie theater ripping tickets... and choosing employees is simply shopping, a leisure activity that many humans love to engage in.



In an honest government it should be every single one. Those with obvious greed issues should be publicly scrutinized.

Now, the NFL is admittedly run waaay better than the average US business - due in large part to public scrutiny - so if you point to the US norm for the ethical guideline on... well, anything... then I think there's a difference in fundamental thinking that hits on almost everything in life.

I can extrapolate my thoughts on the NFL situation to every business in the world: The owner deserves pittance at best unless that owner is an owner/worker in the "exertion" sense of the word "worker".

under no circumstances do I ever believe that the guy that hired me to work for him should show me his books. that's none of my business. He and I agreed on a wage and work to be completed to receive my wage. I think your definition of "worker" is inaccurate. Anyone in the organization who do does work, is considered a worker.

I think the key thing is that the players just want more and more. The owners made concessions at the 11th hour. essentially what the owners offered was the exact same CBA with a rookie wage scale, reduced time involved in team activities, no 18 game regular season unless the nflpa wants it.

i don't get the argument of the NFLPA one iota

[JesterBlaze]

As a fan (and this goes back to Jester's original issue), I wouldn't go watching another random league because it's almost like just randomly going to some high school and watching them play. I have no attachment to the team, the players, or anything.

If every player hypothetically joined a league like the UFL, it would still be different. It would be something to watch on Sunday's, but I certainly wouldn't have the same interest I do now. Just moving the players to a new league loses a lot of the cohesion the NFL has from rivalries to little quirks like the Dolphins struggling up in NE cold weather, but then the Pats having trouble in the Miami heat. Never mind the league history, records, and everything that goes along with that. All the draft picks the Pats have accumulated would be obsolete, which is one of the huge reasons I look forward to the draft.

Not only that, there is no way the UFL could support a complete move.. even if they found upwards of 25 owners willing to front the money to get new stadium deals going with *puke* indoor arenas like hockey rinks, or *lesser puke, but longshot* college stadiums, they'd still lose many full teams which means a complete player re-shuffle would happen (like the 2003 IFL draft), so the players I've grown to root for would all be spread around the league randomly. That would suck.

Basically it would be pushing the 'reset' button on football which would kill a lot of interest from me, and I doubt I'd be alone there.

I don't know where your getting all these changes from. I'm proposing one change: lose the current owners. EVERYTHING else other than team names/colors, such as players/rosters, locations, current draft picks, historical rivalries, etc... would remain the same. There's 100's of college fields to play on if the owners of the current NFL fields want to pay rent for an empty stadium instead of taking a nominal rental fee.

EVERY SINGLE worker in the NFL structure will still work - I guarantee they'll take a check from a different name.

[jeffrey]

I'm confused. You're suggesting we force the 32 owners of the 32 teams that make up the NFL to sell their teams to new owners?

[JesterBlaze]

under no circumstances do I ever believe that the guy that hired me to work for him should show me his books. that's none of my business. He and I agreed on a wage and work to be completed to receive my wage. I think your definition of "worker" is inaccurate. Anyone in the organization who do does work, is considered a worker.

I believe you and think that's the heart of the matter.

I DO think that if I'm part of a group then there are no secrets. If 5 of us work as a team and you want more benefit from our doings then you better be working harder - anything else is exploitation, the foundation of capitalism. I believe in the concept of working smarter not harder but think the "freebie benefits" (those made with a decision not from actual labor) should be those of the group, not the person who simply had a thought. If I come up with a great recipe I shouldn't get any benefit other than a good new meal unless I'm in your house cooking it.

Someone came up with the wheel (personally I believe from watching snowballs roll down a mountain as opposed to any creative thought). Someone came up with fire. Someone learned to plant corn. We don't owe these people and they've offered a lot more than NFL owners ever have.

Anyone who does work is a worker, yes, and the pay rate should go to the hardest workers first and trickle downward. No exertion = no pay.

[jeffrey]

Someone came up with the wheel (personally I believe from watching snowballs roll down a mountain as opposed to any creative thought). Someone came up with fire. Someone learned to plant corn. We don't owe these people and they've offered a lot more than NFL owners ever have.

Sure, but don't you also like modern medicine and conveniences? What moron would spend 50 million dollars to develop life-saving medicine if they won't get some (limited) amount of time to make a profit from that discovery?

Innovation would still happen but it would be at a much slower pace and almost not at all in many cases (drugs, for instance). People make a great deal of money when they provide the world with something a lot of people want or need.

[JesterBlaze]

I'm confused. You're suggesting we force the 32 owners of the 32 teams that make up the NFL to sell their teams to new owners?

No. I'm saying just let them be. Create 32 new teams with new logos and a new league name and EVERYTHING else remains the same. Obviously I only care about watching football talent though and I'm understanding from this that others watch for different reasons. I've tried about 12 seasons in my life to watch college football and all I think is "these players aren't the best. This makes no sense." I'm a 26 year Chicago Bear fan but on their down years I owe them nothing and root for another set of players - and I don't get confused when the NFL has alternate uni's like 20 of the 17 weeks of the season cause I'm watching the same players on the same rosters with the same names.

Incidentally I've realized I actually know about half the owners in the NFL and Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Bob (?) Kraft, etc... are amusing and thus deserve something more than nothing... about slightly less than the mascots who do more work via putting on the costume before similarly pacing the sidelines. :dancemonkey:

[JesterBlaze]

What moron would spend 50 million dollars to develop life-saving medicine if they won't get some (limited) amount of time to make a profit from that discovery?

And that's today's America (world?). Someone who has the crazy altruistic thought to help others is branded a moron if it's not stemmed from selfishness.

Sigh. So glad I can toke and play video games to escape...