Processed: Lawrence/California trade

[Hell Atlantic]

Lawrence gets:
Rockwell, 2012 3rd round pick and 2011 2nd round pick

California gets:
QB Ike Jordan


nice doing business with you, Jester. i have absolutely no need to be aquiring Jordan, but i like having the best backup QB in the game, and someone who will develop into maybe a top 10 QB who i can then use to aquire other parts.

or if Collela shits the bed or gets AIDS at least i have the best possible insurance in the entire league.

and i think i'm done trading away draft picks for sure, now.

[JesterBlaze]

Re: Lawrence/California trade

Lawrence gets:
Bernard Rockwell, QB
2012 3rd round pick
2011 2nd round pick

California gets:
QB Ike Jordan

agreed. sad to see him go but I'm getting old in a couple areas and will need to replenish in the next couple of drafts.

[sovstar]

Rockwell has some solid ratings - wish I had him. I have a soft spot for the undrafted guys.

[sovstar]

BTW, I'll put these trades through tomorrow.

[MrBigglesworth]

California is now without a second round pick for the next two years and without third and fourth round pick for the next three years. Good thing they are already youn-- uh, winni-- um, getting bet-- uhhh...breathing.

[Hell Atlantic]

California is now without a second round pick for the next two years and without third and fourth round pick for the next three years. Good thing they are already youn-- uh, winni-- um, getting bet-- uhhh...breathing.

how can you look at my team and not even acknowledge we've gotten better?

i'm going to do a position by position analysis between our two teams and i think overall we'll see my team, on paper, is the better of the two.

[MrBigglesworth]

The only paper worth comparing teams with is the one the standings are printed on.

When I said getting better, what I meant was developing. For example, when Oakland was trading away all their picks they had 20 developing young players. But California only has one player on the team with a future above 60 that is still developing and 1 player in his first or second year that looks like he will develop into a starter, while at the same time having several starters with 9 or more years of exp. What that means is that the Heroes team has only a couple of opportunities to have players get better, while they have numerous opportunities for their players to get worse. The net result means that, by natural progression alone, California is likely to be worse next year than this year (though that could change if moves are made or random booms happen).

[Hell Atlantic]

if you're trading for young underdeveloped guys, then yes, they have a high ceiling than some guy already at his peak. but that goes against my entire philosophy - if i wanted to take a chance on young high potential players i'd be keeping my picks. but i'm not in the business of gambling. i want to trade my picks, picks that might become players who will bust, for sure things. big difference. by your "logic" you rather have Eli Manning cuz he has room to develop than Peyton Manning, a guy already at the height of his powers.

when you play the "trade for young high potential players" game, there's only two paths you can expect: the player develops/booms, or he busts. when you aquire proven veterans at their peak, there's no risk. you already have a proven commodity. the object is to get guys who can play great *now*, not guys who *might* be able to play great if all the planets align.

there were two teams i was in deep talks with who didn't want to trade for my future picks because they felt the Heroes would be too good of a team in 2012 that they'd essentially be aquiring weak picks. only a fool could look at the Heroes and think this team is gonna be a bottom feeder. i honestly feel this team shoudl be competing for a championship by 2012. that's not wishful thinking. i have all the pieces in place. when Ike Jordan fully develops you think he won't be one of the biggest commodities in the league? in about 2 years time i'll have two top 10 QB's on my team. two TOP 10. if i stick with Collela i can play longball. if i go with Jordan i'll play dink and dunk. i can play any gameplan i want with the two QB's i have in place. Ike Jordan as of right now is the highest rated young QB in the game, per the Green Page in-game. all i needed to give up for this huge commodity is a great career backup QB in Rockwell and two picks that may or may not be worth more than they are now. i approve.

[MrBigglesworth]

by your "logic" you rather have Eli Manning cuz he has room to develop than Peyton Manning, a guy already at the height of his powers.

I'm not saying that at all. There is certainly a time to go after developed players (I traded draft picks for Camp and Graybill, for example).

there were two teams i was in deep talks with who didn't want to trade for my future picks because they felt the Heroes would be too good of a team in 2012 that they'd essentially be aquiring weak picks.

Here is my point: right now you are 0-3, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you go about .500 the rest of the way and end up at 6-10. How do you turn that 6-10 team into a contending 11-5 team? By 2012, Weidner, Davis, and Daniels will most likely be retired. 12 more starters will be in at least their 10th year, meaning there is a good chance their skill will start to deteriorate. And maybe you have an injury or two. Barring random booms, the only player that will improve significantly is Mullin.

So that's three players retired, 12 who will probably be worse, against 1 player that will probably be better. Between now and the 2012 season you have 4 decent draft picks while the league will average 12. So how do you get better? It's not from any of your current backups, because you might have the most shallow team in the league. You'd have to trade your future picks for more over the hill players just to keep treading water.

[Hell Atlantic]

wow, how things change. i talked a big game for a team that was, at the time, 0-3. i backed it up. this season has been a phenomenal success for me, and i stand by my statement that is has been my favorite season out of all the MP leagues i've been in. and i was in IHOF.

i still think we're gonna finish 9-7 and if that's true we'd surpass my preseason goals of 7-9. WC may be a longshot, but at least we're still on the dancefloor and anything can happen when you're on the dancefloor.

[JesterBlaze]

I've believed in the Heroes all season as is evidenced by my picking you to win the division in Fat Tony's betting parlor (not going to do it but shows my belief in the team) and my asking for future picks and not this season's picks.

[sovstar]

I know you won't like to hear it from me, but I'm just not a big fan of Jordan. I'd much rather have a guy like Rockwell whose ratings are much more consistent. I think Jordan will be a hot and cold type guy.

[sovstar]

This thread caused me to think of [ifl]Rob Richardson[/ifl]. It's a guy like him that makes me love FOF and this league. His career is so young and it's already full of so many backstories. I bet I get reunited with him at some point. I think I'm just gaga over his name. It just rolls off of the tongue.

[JesterBlaze]

Ike Jordan will always make me think of passing on Lamont Shepard, LT for Cleveland, who came out of college as a 57/57 and, although a 57 is low potential for a 1st round pick, was 100% developed and I thought at the time it would be just about the strangest thing I'd ever heard of if a player was as good as he could ever get right out of college.

Only time will tell if I eventually got good value for my 1.21 pick.

[Hell Atlantic]

I know you won't like to hear it from me, but I'm just not a big fan of Jordan. I'd much rather have a guy like Rockwell whose ratings are much more consistent. I think Jordan will be a hot and cold type guy.

i think you'll find QB's who have high ratings in accuracy and not throwing INTs (even though it'll be hidden) will be rather serviceable in 2k7. i mean, Jordan truly is the complete opposite of Dennis Collela. Collela is the gunslinger of the two, cocks it back and just throws it - hard. but his accuracy is low and he loves the INTs, per his ratings. in the right system, though, and quite a few good WR's, then yes, Collela can be a force in this league. you have to be disciplined with how you use him cuz his low accuracy - despite his perfect scores in other categories - will hurt you if you ignore it. Jordan is the technician, weak arm, looks to be the type to pick the D apart, the thread the needle type guy. those types need playmakers as receivers, cuz you just can't let them throw bombs. a part of me wouldn't have minded if we sucked this year, cuz if we were out of it and we had 2 or 3 games left to go Jordan would be starting and i'd be seeing what we could do with him. alas, the Heroes are the real deal. sooner than most expected.

just saying the state of this team at the time this trade was made is complete different than it is now. mr bigg was saying for such a sucky team we shouldn't have been trading some good picks but the team turned it around and is on a fast track to where i feel it could be. mission accomplished.

still, 60% of me traded for Jordan just so i could move him for other parts i would need. to be able to aquire a potential top 10 QB, and the highest rated young QB at that, and not give up a first round pick - i'll do it every time. buy low, sell high.