Discussion on Cap reduction

[Matt]

This discussion on FOFC has got me wondering what you would think about something like this for the IFL

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ad.php?t=83839

I've had some brief discussions with Ben and he said that he would do this for us should we decide this is a direction we would want to go.

thought i'd open the discussion to see what you're all thinking. Cap reduction leagues really open up trading and FA. It also allows for some quicker turn around for franchises.
I'm in the CCFL where there's a significant cap reduction (25% i think) as well as no franchise tag. I enjoy the challenge there.


I'd like some additional feedback here as discussion, and a vote in the thread posted below. the poll is on for 5 days

thanks




http://www.imperialfl.us/forums/showthread.php?t=12571

[JesterBlaze]

Cap reduction leagues really open up trading and FA. It also allows for some quicker turn around for franchises.

My little poop to add:

1) Like most other options there are already leagues like this.
2) The cap has "crunched" me for the past decade in league years, and that's with multiple cuts/trades of quality players. It works if you don't intentionally trade your current players for cheap FA replacements every season.
3) If we want to open up trading (and only if GMs really want to open up trading) then start booting the bottom 3 GMs each season. Those same GMs can re-enter the league with another team ala NFL. I personally don't like trades (other than the immediate drama) because I want to see "Gene Hamilton" on OAK for life, Sparkman as a General, etc...
4) I'm simply not a fan of quick turn around in a video game. In real life citizens shouldn't be forced to work for the same organization if they don't want to. In a video game the player (us) should live with his/her choices. It actually disgusts me that someone would have the mindframe to cherry pick the winning lottery tickets off someone else after the lottery instead of putting in their own research beforehand. This is a competition (albeit friendly) not a game of hot-potato with the IFL trophy.



Related Note: For those who do choose a cap reduction realize the effects aren't just going to be the positive ones for you that you think. If you think you're gonna trade up and take the stud in the draft and then eventually steal back some of the players picked up with the extra picks YOU TRADED know that that's not going to happen. No one's going to trade back anymore. The game will be a matter of trying to sign the same 7 ultra-studs to your team every year and the teams who try to win with scheme, cohesion, and depth will have no place anymore. Not only would I never trade back again in a cap reduced state, I'd ignore everything past the 2nd round... maybe even 1st round.
Look at the recent Dakota/Tulsa mega-trade. Reducing the cap screws DG and gives Tarcone a HUGE advantage in that trade after the fact. It would totally change the dynamics of that trade.


FWIW: In full disclosure I couldn't read the full thread at FOFC. I puked after Ben's screenshots of talent about to be poached.

[Matt]

My little poop to add:

1) Like most other options there are already leagues like this.
2) The cap has "crunched" me for the past decade in league years, and that's with multiple cuts/trades of quality players. It works if you don't intentionally trade your current players for cheap FA replacements every season.
3) If we want to open up trading (and only if GMs really want to open up trading) then start booting the bottom 3 GMs each season. Those same GMs can re-enter the league with another team ala NFL. I personally don't like trades (other than the immediate drama) because I want to see "Gene Hamilton" on OAK for life, Sparkman as a General, etc...
4) I'm simply not a fan of quick turn around in a video game. In real life citizens shouldn't be forced to work for the same organization if they don't want to. In a video game the player (us) should live with his/her choices. It actually disgusts me that someone would have the mindframe to cherry pick the winning lottery tickets off someone else after the lottery instead of putting in their own research beforehand. This is a competition (albeit friendly) not a game of hot-potato with the IFL trophy.



Related Note: For those who do choose a cap reduction realize the effects aren't just going to be the positive ones for you that you think. If you think you're gonna trade up and take the stud in the draft and then eventually steal back some of the players picked up with the extra picks YOU TRADED know that that's not going to happen. No one's going to trade back anymore. The game will be a matter of trying to sign the same 7 ultra-studs to your team every year and the teams who try to win with scheme, cohesion, and depth will have no place anymore. Not only would I never trade back again in a cap reduced state, I'd ignore everything past the 2nd round... maybe even 1st round.
Look at the recent Dakota/Tulsa mega-trade. Reducing the cap screws DG and gives Tarcone a HUGE advantage in that trade after the fact. It would totally change the dynamics of that trade.


FWIW: In full disclosure I couldn't read the full thread at FOFC. I puked after Ben's screenshots of talent about to be poached.

to refute some of your points.

really, the cap has crunched you where you have to trade or release 40ish and 50ish rated players.......guys that maybe you like, but don't want to get rid of.

look at some of the trade block threads. guys are trading low 40s players. what would happen if you had to make some really hard choices?

I can honestly say that I've never had to make a really difficult decision for a pending FA player since playing 2007. I'm comfortably under the cap. All my top players are signed for next year.....I have nothing to worry about. I can just continue to cruise.

IF there was a cap reduction of even 10%, I'd be in some serious shit.
salary cap is currently at $186,800,000
with the 10% reduction, we'd all have just less than $19 mil less to spend. It would mean that i might let that 5th yr G who wants $10 mil a yr walk because I'd rather invest that money elsewhere.

It makes the league a little bit more interesting. It makes FA a little more interesting.

[Matt]

Ultimately, I encourage people to read the thread I've linked on FOFC. Ask questions for those that have participated.

I think if you had asked me 2 years ago real time if I would like this, I'd be leaning towards no. Now having played in a cap crunched league, I think it makes everything better. It fixes the in game problem.

[Matt]

And I don't want to steer anything. I'm just speaking to my experience. Not every league has the ability to adjust the cap. Ben has said that he would do it for us, so I figured if we have the option, we might as well explore it.

[tarcone]

Im in a cap crunch league. And I havent had this quick turn around you talk about. I think I have won 8 games in the last 4 seasons. I am sitting on a couple #1s a #2 and a #5. Guess what Im going to do? Just what Jester said. Im going to find cohesion guys that take the minsal and cruise with my QB and 3 WRs and TE.
Thats what will happen here.

GPing will be come more important. And about half the league says it sucks at that. So now they dont have the otion of building a red bar team to take away some of their lack if GPing ability.

Not in favor. This is my favorite league. I like the format and how it is run. I hope it doesnt change.

[Jave]

Admittedly, I haven't read the entire discussion, but just the sentence, "cap reduction league" sends chills up my spine. Now while Portland is fine, for now, my teams are usually right at the cap every single year. Like Jester mentioned, I'm one of those GM's who tries to keep every single player I draft their entire career. I remember when Sui poached my FB that had been with me since the initial allocation draft in his final year in the league. I was seriously bummed out. I still remember many many players from my teams, Hamilton, Myers, Allmon, Tessier, Mulligan, Martinez etc...These guys arn't just players, they are like an extended family.

I guess that could be considered not making smart business decisions for the team based on the fact I like a guy, and maybe I keep an old guy around way past his usefulness, but it's how I play. It's what I enjoy about the game. Cutting the cap would make "my" way of playing the game even more difficult. And the fact is, I could really care less about free agency. Trading is fun, sure, but more and more I'm trying to focus on drafting players and keeping them as long as possible. Free agency is already a fucking spending spree, don't bother unless you have 50 million in cap space, which makes the draft even more important.

I don't really see the benefit of reducing the cap. This is still a game, it's supposed to be fun! Stressing every single year over which guys you like that you have to cut isn't fun. Now imagine your team isn't winning as well. So the season sucks for you because your not going to the playoffs, and in the offseason you still gotta cut players? Doesn't sound like much fun. I voted no.

[Mike17]

Cap crunch makes it hard to keep your favorite players. The IFL thrives on GMs that are attached to their teams. I don't see cap reduction being good for the league for this reason.

[markc]

Disclaimer: I have no experience with a cap-reduced league (or any other league for that matter)

I think I would be in a favor for some cap reduction. Maybe not 25%, but 10-20% range. I think there is a legitimate issue with (most) owners not having to pay much attention to the cap and not much of a FA market at all (besides players from teams with absentee owners).

Impacts as I see them:
1) It would benefit teams that are willing (can) spend more time in the FA portion of the game. Overall, making the offseason more important and reducing somewhat the impact of gameplanning in a relative sense.

2) Potentially reduce the impacts of cohesion by forcing teams to consider talent vs cohesion more - it will be harder to justify holding on to those aging vets that still want to get paid just to keep cohesion up.

3) Draft and trading - Edit---no comment (I'm not sure what impacts it would have)

4) depth would suffer so injuries to key players would be huge. It would probably require a change of strategy for me since I've been trying to have quality depth to make up for my lack of superstars.

Just my ten cents, my two cents is free...

[Matt]

Great points made by all. reading Jester, jave, tarc's responses opened up something that I never put enough thought into.

And to be clear, I have in no way decided where I stand on the matter. I just want to make sure that we look at our options and then as a league make a decision.
this is obviously a significant change

[r00k]

To reducing the cap: I took Matt's advice to visit the discussion threads with the provided links. I must admit I found some compelling discussion to bring some "fresh air" to what many believe to be a "stale" game. There is also some track history that also suggests that this tampering does not impact the integrity of the game's software.

The decision is really one of whether a GM wants to play the game in "another version/release" or remain committed to the version he is already playing. In my gaming experience, I have had to make this decision for almost all the active games that I play. Sometimes, I have preferred older versions over newer ones and vice versa.

In reaction to FOF ... I have found myself to become less and less motivated to play the game as it now stands and would most likely enjoy the new challenge of a reduced cap challenge a bit more.

For those who have the time for another league and desiring this new twist, joining a league that is already set up with this option provides this outlet. For those who do not have the time for another league ... the choice will be either stay status quo or to try something new. I think I lean towards the latter -- but if the vote fails ... so be it, as well.

[Matt]

the choice will be either stay status quo or to try something new. I think I lean towards the latter -- but if the vote fails ... so be it, as well.

this is how i feel as well.

[Beeznik]

What great players do you see hitting the NFL FA market? I rarely see any. So why do it here?

[markc]

What great players do you see hitting the NFL FA market? I rarely see any. So why do it here?

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Kurt Warner, Charles Woodson, Rich Gannon, Simeon Rice, Mike Vrabel, LaDainian Tomlinson, Julius Peppers, Michael Turner, Rodney Harrison, Curtis Martin, Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, Darren Sharper, Marcus Allen, Priest Holmes, Steve Hutchinson

Those are all probably 75+ rated players, I bet there are tons of ~55-75 rated FAs in the NFL that would never see the light of day in FOF.

[Beeznik]

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Kurt Warner, Charles Woodson, Rich Gannon, Simeon Rice, Mike Vrabel, LaDainian Tomlinson, Julius Peppers, Michael Turner, Rodney Harrison, Curtis Martin, Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, Darren Sharper, Marcus Allen, Priest Holmes, Steve Hutchinson

Those are all probably 75+ rated players, I bet there are tons of ~55-75 rated FAs in the NFL that would never see the light of day in FOF.

And they were all either malcontents or old, for the most part. My issue is, I've finally seemed to get Georgia over that hump, and I have some expensive players. So, now that I'm finally there, I'm gonna have to release some top talent? No thanks. Like others have said, they have leagues like that. If that's what someone wants, they are free to join the other leagues.